Transcript CNN International Interview with Nigeria's President Obasanjo and USAfricaonline.com Publisher Chido Nwangwu on Democracy and Security Issues





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Obasanjo, Go! Just go!

Prof. WOLE SOYINKA's January 19, 2006 press statement/conference in Lagos on the crisis in Oyo State and alleged roles and incapacities of President Olusegun Obasanjo:

"In the name of that very God whom you thank for yanking you back from the abyss, I implore you-Go! Go while it is still possible to forgive you for robbing us all of our earned retirement. Go! Just go! This is no time to beat about the bush. The presidential hand in this (Oyo State) affair is blatant. Obasanjo has openly endorsed violence as a means of governance, embraced and empowered individuals whose avowed declarations, confessions and acts are cynically contrary to the democratic mandate that alone upholds the legitimacy and dignity of his office. Let me repeat this: the contempt of President Obasanjo for the demands for a democratic self-realisation by the electorate is no longer in doubt, and can be proved, chapter and verse - from Anambra to Oyo.... We are confronted by a mind that has gone awry, a mind that is subject to no order except that of the crudest, most despotic notions of dominance in a primitive society. Nigeria is not a primitive or private fiefdom. It is governed by law. The respectful 'Baba' accolade has turned to be yet another Baabuism, mimics the culture of the 'dons,' literally actualised by Obasanjo as that of a Mafia godfather whose hand you either bow and kiss, or receive the kiss of death."

Special to USAfrica The Newspaper, Houston
USAfricaonline.com and CLASS magazine and The Black Business Journal

I shall immediately start by denying a statement attributed to me in a report of the brief press encounter that followed the opening event of the Development Policy Centre Workshop on Corruption in Ibadan this Monday the 17th (2006). That statement claimed that regarding the ongoing Oyo crisis, I demanded that the President of the nation, Olusegun Obasanjo, should speak up.

I could not have made such a demand, and the reason is simple: I am not deaf. President Olusegun Obasanjo (in picture) has already spoken. He has spoken loud and clear over the Oyo crisis, and that is left is for the people to respond. Actions speak louder than words - that's common wisdom. And for those who try to suggest that there has been no overt action by the President before, during, and after the Oyo State crisis, I can only respond that there are times when inaction, speaks even louder than both action and words. Inaction becomes eloquent when it involves a deliberate avoidance of duty, a failure, in the case of any citizen in a responsible position, to take preventive action to head off anarchy and disaster. Inaction becomes even criminal where such an individual, by virtue of his or her special position is saddled with that very special responsibility.

However, it would be pure self- deception to propose that Obasanjo's conduct lies in inaction, in a failure to arrest the state of anomie into which Oyo State has now plunged. He has been active, propulsive and unabashedly partisan participant in the formulation of that crisis, so the burden of guilt that rests on the presidential shoulders is not simply one of failing to act, but of instigating, stoking an guaranteeing the state of chaos.

This is no time to beat about the bush. The presidential hand in this affair is blatant. Obasanjo has openly endorsed violence as a means of governance, embraced and empowered individuals whose avowed declarations, confessions and acts are cynically contrary to the democratic mandate that alone upholds the legitimacy and dignity of his office. Let me repeat this: the contempt of President Obasanjo for the demands for a democratic self-realisation by the electorate is no longer in doubt, and can be proved, chapter and verse - from Anambra to Oyo.

For Nigerians who may be somewhat befuddled by the legal issues involved in the impeachment saga of Oyo State, let another layman provide an illustration. You will know that legislators constantly travel out of this country for various causes - some purposeful and productive, others purely opportunistic jamborees. Well, imagine that 12 out 20 legislators take off to attend a Trade Exhibition abroad any rich individual can even offer to underwrite their expenses if the stakes are high enough - the goal is simply to ensure their absence for the execution of some political conspiracy. Well then, in their absence, the remaining colleagues impeach their governor, claiming that they have two-thirds majority among the sitting members. This, in the simplest terms is the constitutional issue at stake. This is why certain safeguards have been implanted within such procedures to ensure that the elected representatives of the polity do not act frivolously, mischievously - or at least, ensure that they do not have an easy time doing so. If 'suspension by causes' this time, believe me, the next proceeding will be absenteeism through deception. We are moving towards a total mockery of constitutionalism.

First with Anambra, and now Oyo State, the President has crossed the line of political toleration. You failed in Anambra, but you felt you had learnt certain lessons in the use of state coercion. Hence the armed take-over of Bayelsa's state radio by federal might during the Bayelsa impeachment saga an illegal and unnecessary act that merely pandered to presidential ego and lust for domination. You felt that you had been too subtle in Anambra in the use of the police - poor Ige was a mere fall guy - and so in Oyo you decided to go the brutal distance with what overt state power can do. If you succeed in Oyo, the nation will be at your feet. The nation? No, the state maybe, but not the nation. And even less likely, the people. Do not be fooled by appearances.

The authorship of the ongoing illegalities and abuse of the Nigerian constitution in Oyo State - this being the latest of such manipulations - lies squarely within the presidency. There are only two relevant questions: has the police, by its actions, not flagrantly set itself above and against he judiciary, whose decisions it is lawfully bound to enforce? And the second question follows from this: who gives the Inspector-General his orders? The finger points in only one direction - President Olusegun Obasanjo. Obasanjo's misuse of the Police to enforce his private political vendettas has become a notorious governance perfidy that screams for remedial action.

I am no acquaintance or partisan of Governor Ladoja. The intra-party politics of any political organisation is none of the business of non-members of the party. They became the business of one and all however, indeed a life-and -death issue, when the protocols that binds us together as a nation are flouted, mocked and debased. Those protocols are not articles of convenience, to be cited as guiding authority when convenient, then discarded at will whenever they prove an obstacle to misgovernance. Obasanjo has mangled the constitution and turned its polluted pulp into a weapon of offence against the rights and legitimate expectations of the people.

We are confronted by a mind that has gone awry, a mind that is subject to no order except that of the crudest, most despotic notions of dominance in a primitive society. Nigeria is not a primitive or private fiefdom. It is governed by law. The respectful 'Baba' accolade has turned to be yet another Baabuism, mimics the culture of the 'dons,' literally actualised by Obasanjo as that of a Mafia godfather whose hand you either bow and kiss, or receive the kiss of death.

Let me ask this of our president: are you proud of what you have unleashed? When the chairman of your political party insults the Nigerian people by referring to a state as a garrison, and instructs elected representatives to obey orders, do you voice any disapproval? And was Chairman Ali's pronouncement merely the arrogant advance notice of a well-laid conspiracy to destabilise that state? Did you watch, by any chance, yesterday's NTA news at 9 p.m. - Wednesday January 18? Did you watch the raucous debate on the Oyo State imbroglio? Is this what you planned? Is this what you wanted? Is this the crowning glory of the politics of your second term in office? The perennial battle of Conscience and Corruption, played out in seamy corridors of power.

Till today, we have yet to sort out the origin of N70 million bribes offered to legislators in the House of Representative with a hundred million promised to senators for promotion of the scramble for a Third Term agenda. These accusations are in the public domain, outlined with details of place and time, and we await in vain the probing of this and other signal contradictions of high-profile exposures with their commendable punishments for corrupt acts. Have you publicly denounced the givers? Have you let loose the agencies of investigation on them? The EFCC especially? These are not faceless saboteurs of the political will-is their purported act criminal, or is not? Why is there deafening silence from the man who would have benefited from these corrupt practices? Are the moves over, or is there still a constitutional joker to come?

I met former President Arap Moi a few years before his 'retirement' from office. At that time, he was still in that now painfully familiar phase when the incumbent cannot imagine life after power. We met at his request, and I ensured that I was accompanied by a Nigerian who was then working for a UN Agency - I was afraid that the civilian dictator might later use our encounter as some kind of photo-op for boosting his then ongoing last-ditch intrigues to cling on to power.

When our conversation offered the desired opening, I said to him, Mr. President, what are your plans after you quit office? He was taken aback and mumbled something about returning to his village and doing some farming etc. Good, I said, I shall come and visit you. The final and lasting service African leaders can provide future generations is just a manner of departure that would make it possible for one to visit them in retirement and drink from their wisdom and experience. Arap Moi appeared to relax, brightened up somewhat at the idea, and assured me I would be most welcome... and we parted, promising to keep in touch.

I was never an acquaintance of Arap Moi, but the nation knows that I can claim some kind of friendly relations-albeit quirky-based on mutual though critical respect. I thus feel that, in your case, I can claim a sense of personal commitment to your well being. In your heart of hearts, you cannot evidence of this.

And my urging today is the same as that offered to Arap Moi: Leave quietly, peacefully, take your quite considerable successes in governance policies with you. Make it possible for us to call on you in retirement as a respected elder statesman. Do not leave the nation with such lacerating memories, with such a bad taste in the mouth that the people dismiss even your successes as mere accidents, as flashes in the pan or the work of others. Leave now, pleading governance, exhaustion, age, betrayal, resentment at the ingratitude of the governed, anything at all but-leave. Leave today, right now.

 

If you do wish to serve out your term however, which is predictable, then you must begin a reversal of unconstitutional acts. You must begin by obeying the decisions of the courts to the letter. No hedging, no trimming, no renewed delaying tactics-just obey them, and get on with the positives of your administration. Anything less will be unacceptable. It is time to remind the Nigerian people that in the mad days of Sani Abacha, a march on Aso Rock was actually planned. Those who were in the know can attest as to why that march was eventually aborted. You will recall that the strategy was mapped out at Mayflower School Ikenne, even as the Mobile Police surrounded the assembly hall, fully armed and kilted, noisy. Restless and menacing, awaiting orders. At that point, Abacha had not yet reached the absolute height of impunity, and there was indecision at the top. Heaven alone knows what the result would have been if the likely orders had been given and carried out, but they were not. After that conference, pressure was mounted on us to abandon the march on the grounds that too many innocents would be needlessly slaughtered by a demented dictator. Why do I nurse that feeling in my stomach that, under this regime, those orders would be given, and they would be carried out with a sickening brutality? Well perhaps it is time to put it to the test.

 

The instrument for the removal of a sitting president, is however laid out-impeachment. If this presidential conduct persists, we have an obligation to call on our legislatures to rescue that instrument of constitutional remedy from current debasement and apply it to the author of our present predicament. And so I urge the nation to commence plans for an orderly convergence on our elected representatives from all parts of the nation to compel them to act. We know that the instruments for coercion are in the hands of one man, whose rationality we now have every cause to question, but the present presidential rampage must be stopped. If anyone has more effective ideas, we would gladly consider them, and would most contentedly follow any lead, as long as such a lead takes into consideration the daily consolidation of anti-people power by one who is now convinced of his divine immunity and blatantly tramples on the conditions of association that hold this nation together. A campaign of civil disobedience is another option-it remains a legitimate instrument of resistance against governance by illegalities.

We must exhort the Nigerian Bar Association, the civil rights movements but especially the NLC-you have made a good beginning, but do not let us down. Do not back down, or the consequences of any recourse to extreme, uncoordinated responses will be on your head. You are the best placed to undertake the leadership for the containment of this rampaging bull-oh, what jokes history plays on us!

Was this not the same individual who, during Babangida's discreditable ploys to cling to power used words to the following effect: 'When you see a mad bull in a China shop, you must find ways of leading it out gently so as to avoid destroying the contents of the shop'-words that effect by Olusegun Obasanjo. Our situation today is identical, and the question I ask the NLC is simply this: can you accept the responsibility of leading this bull, through peaceful action, out of the China shop that is called Nigeria? It is not the responsibility of the Labour movement alone however, but that of all the civil rights movements, the professionals, student organisations, the clergy of every faith, women movements...indeed of every citizen who cherishes decency and justice in governance.

We know what risks we run, and when people ask us sometimes-why do you not rest? At your age, why do you continue to confront these ogres? Well, the answer to that is obvious. If another old man of 70 can muster the energy to conspire against a nation, there should be enough old men of 70 to say no?

So, desist, I urge, so we can all go into peaceful retirement. Retire, so I can visit you in your farm and resume our days of both harmless and pungent controversies over pounded yam and egusi. But your conduct robs me of sleep, deprives me of my planned retirement, encroaches on my normal preoccupations, plays havoc on my concentration within my own field but most of all-desecrates all I have ever believed in, fought for all my life, including those years when you had one foot at the very edge of the grave.

In the name of that very God whom you thank for yanking you back from the abyss, I implore you-Go! Go while it is still possible to forgive you for robbing us all of our earned retirement. Go! Just go!
Prof. Soyinka, a Nobel laureate for literature, is a Nigerian-born playwright, critic, author, artiste and essayist.

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USAfricaonline LITERATURE
Why Chinua Achebe, the Eagle on the Iroko, is Africa's writer of the century.
Achebe, scholar, social conscience, cultural historian and globally-acclaimed writer, has been a significant and binding source for an engaging understanding of African pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial history and realities. I believe that such insight has made him a favorite of African-Americans, and other scholars and regular folks in search of a better, realistic understanding of Africa, at least, from Achebe's utilization of his rich and dynamic Igbo ancestry, in south eastern Nigeria. I share the same ancestry, and he's one of my mentors.
By Chido Nwangwu. Click here for commentary
Chinua Achebe returns "home" from U.S., to love and adulation of community.Achebe on oral tradition, juxtapositioning of language and linguistic colonialism. World-famous Nigerian writer Chinua Achebe has said that Africans should not be overly concerned if the long-established tradition of oral storytelling dies out. Achebe, once described by Nelson Mandela as "the writer in whose presence prison walls fell down," told the BBC that he agreed that the art was dying out - but insisted it could be revived "if we decide that the oral story is absolutely necessary." "Oral storytelling was important when I was writing - it may not be important when the next generation is writing," he said. Achebe, who is very critical of colonialism and its aftermath in Africa, explained that he himself writes in English because he is a victim of linguistic colonialism. But he added that he felt it was important not to "lose sight of the need for our mother tongue."

"I hope I have shown it is possible to show respect to English and Igbo together. Chinua Achebe added that "The situation may well develop in the future, in which the different languages of Africa will begin to reassert themselves," he added. "I have made provision for that myself, by writing certain kinds of material in Igbo. For instance, I will insist my poetry is translated back into Igbo while I'm still around."


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Index of Founder's Notes (1)

Index of Founder's Notes (2)

Index of other Viewpoints USAfricaonline contributors and columnists on the issues

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Why Nigeria and Africa's leaders are leading us to nowhere. By Professor Herbert Ekwe-Ekwe, contributing editor of USAfricaonline.com, author of the highly-acclaimed African Literature in Defence of History: An Essay on Chinua Achebe and a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics.
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Abati's Revisionisms and Distortions of history. By Obi Nwakanma, USAfrica The Newspaper contributing editor and award-winning poet
Reuben Abati's fallacies on Nigeria's history and secession. By Bayo Arowolaju
How Abati, Adelaja and others fuel the campaign of hatred against Ndigbo. By Jonas Okwara
"Obasanjo, secession and the
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Abati and other
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TRIBUTE
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CONTINENTAL AGENDA

Bush's position on Africa is "ill-advised." The position stated by Republican presidential aspirant and Governor of Texas, George Bush where he said that "Africa will not be an area of priority" in his presidency has been questioned by USAfricaonline.com Publisher Chido Nwangwu. He added that Bush's "pre-election position was neither validated by the economic exchanges nor geo-strategic interests of our two continents." These views were stated during an interview CNN's anchor Bernard Shaw and senior analyst Jeff Greenfield had with Mr. Nwangwu on Saturday November 18, 2000 during a special edition of 'Inside Politics 2000.' Nwangwu, adviser to the Mayor of Houston (the 4th largest city in the U.S., and immigrant home to thousands of Africans) argued further that "the issues of the heritage interests of 35 million African-Americans in Africa, the volume and value of oil business between between the U.S and Nigeria and the horrendous AIDS crisis in Africa do not lend any basis for Governor Bush's ill-advised position which removes Africa from fair consideration" were he to be elected president. By Al Johnson
ARTS
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PANAFRICANIST
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Sex, Women and (Hu)Woman Rights. By Chika Unigwe

DEMOCRACY DEBATE
CNN International debate on Nigeria's democracy was livecast on February 19, 2002. It involved Nigeria's Information Minister Prof. Jerry Gana, Prof. Salih Booker and USAfricaonline.com Publisher Chido Nwangwu. Transcripts are available on the CNN International site.

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COUNTERPOINT
Tiger Woods is no Nelson Mandela! By Chido Nwangwu
SPORTS: Tiger Woods makes more history with another golf Masters win. He shot 12-under-par 276 and a final round 71 at Georgia's Augusta National Golf Club event and collected $1,008,000, on Sunday April 14, 2002. With it, the world's golf phenom added another green jacket to his array of championships and titles, placing him, in this instance, in the same respected Masters' league as Nicklaus (winner 1965 and 1966) and Nick Faldo (1989 and 1990). The three are the only men to win back-to-back Masters. At 26, Woods has since become the youngest golfer to win his seventh professional major championship. He was joined by his parents and his 22 year-old Swedish model girlfriend, Elin Nordegren.
Impeachment process shows Nigerian democracy "is alive... being tested." Nigeria's president retired Gen. Olusegun Obasanjo has said that the impeachment process shows that "democracy is alive, is being tested, and being tried.... What they (the legislators) have tried to do in the democratic way, which is not easy, would probably have been done by taking arms or by -- with bullets. So, but with democracy, of course, some people feel that this is the way this should be, and then I have an opportunity to defend myself. There is discussion. There is dialogue. There is a decision. There is fairness." He made these comments when he appeared on Tuesday September 17, 2002 on CNN International to discuss the issues of impeachment facing him, the allegations of corruption, abuse of the constitution and deployment of soldiers ina civilian environment which led to the "massacre of civilians" in Odi (Bayelsa) and Zaki Biam (Benue). On the charges by international human rights organizations and Nigerian media that his government has been involved in actions which have led to the deaths of thousands of Nigerians, the retired General gave a surprising answer. He was asked that "as many as 10,000 people, it's being reported, have been killed in Nigeria (in) communal rivalries, and the number is believed to be increasing. And people are saying that although President Obasanjo has done a lot of good for Nigeria, you're accused of not -- accused of failing to halt that spiraling violence."
Obasanjo: Let me say this to you, when you put the question of 10,000 -- 10,000 people dying in Nigeria, of course, for a population of over 120 million people...." But USAfricaonline.com Founder and recipient of the Journalism Excellence award (1997),
Chido Nwangwu, who appeared on the same program as as a CNN International analyst (Africa) pointed out that "when (President Obasanjo) answered that in a country of 100 million that 10,000 people are said to have died, as if that was a small number, that in itself reflects a disconnect with the concerns of Nigerians. The second one is that when the risk is civil disagreement, the police are required to intervene in the country. And the deployment of the armed forces of Nigeria requires at least some consultation, however modest, with the parliament." Nwangwu, former member of the editorial board of Nigeria's Daily Times continued that "the third factor that is equally important to underscore is that the armed forces of Nigeria moved in for a punitive action rather than just containing a civil disagreement." He noted in USAfricaonline.com backgrounder "it was revealing and interesting interesting discussing Nigeria's issues with its leader - under the current circumstances of an increasingly out-of-schedule elections and the gathering storm of an impeachment process by a majority of the members of the National Assembly, predominantly by Obasanjo's party members." See rush transcript of the CNN International news program.
Obasanjo facing corruption and ineptitude impeachment charges, again since the parliament, a few weeks ago, passed a motion carrying a majority of the members of Obasanjo's party, the PDP.
RELIGION AND ETHNIC CONFLICT: Sharia-related killings and carnage in Kaduna reenact deadly prologue to Nigeria-Biafra war of 1967. By Chido Nwangwu
It's wrong to stereotype Nigerians as Drug Dealers. By Chido Nwangwu
Nigeria as a Nation of Vulcanizers
Why Colin
Powell brings gravitas, credibility and star power to Bush presidency.
PUBLIC POLICY
Private initiative, free market forces, and more democratization are keys to prosperity in Africa.
The
Civilianizing of African soldiers into Presidents
Maduekwe, Nwachukwu clash over Obasanjo at World Igbo 2002 convention in Houston. USAfrica Special report

DEMOCRACY DEBATE
CNN International debate on Nigeria's democracy livecast on February 19, 2002. It involved Nigeria's Information Minister Prof. Jerry Gana, Prof. Salih Booker and USAfricaonline.com Publisher Chido Nwangwu. Transcripts are available on the CNN International site.

Steve Jobs and Apple represent the future of digital living. By Chido Nwangwu
The coup in Cote d'Ivoire and its implications for democracy in Africa. By Chido Nwangwu
(Related commentary) Coup in Cote d'Ivoire has been in the waiting. By Tom Kamara.


Will the rash of Ethnic Violence disrupt Nigeria's effort at Democracy?

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